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I like the speed of frequent library updates, how soon bugs get fixed, how fast it gets faster.

I am not so happy about how fast new components are added to the library.

Recently, at a very late stage in the release of 3.6.0 there was an attempt to get TreeView into it. Fortunately, it was taken back. The component chosen from those in the Gallery was possibly the worst possible choice and the inclusion of such abomination in the library was averted, so it went back the the Gallery (poor Gallery).

Now I get a link to this video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO2xCmnY53g where Ryan introduces us to Y.Template.Micro, another template processor instead of Y.Handlebars which Ryan himself ported and now realizes it is too heavy on a client environment.

He ported BackboneJS about a year ago (or was it earlier?) and he later found out that Y.ModelList was too slow for large data sets, so he came up with Y.LazyModelList, which is mostly incompatible with Y.ModelList.

I don't need to mention how bad Y.Model is, I've been boring everyone within earshot about it and, if you haven't been one of the unlucky, you can read it here: http://satyam.github.com/WhyGalleryModel.html

What else will be brought into the library too early?

We already had DataTable, which had to be rewritten from scratch and, finally, we have something that works.

In yesterday's Open Hours we learned that there will be a YUIConf in November. I'm scared about what will come from it. Why? Because the bad version of DataTable was put together just to have something cool to announce in the YUI Conf of two years ago. Y.Model and all its associated stuff, along with Handlebars came for YUI Conf or thereabouts.

All failed components are plain ports, done on a rush, and all have been replaced or have better alternatives. DataTable was a trivial port from YUI2 DataTable, Model and ModelLists ports from Backbone and Handlebars is a port of the component or that name. DataTable has been replaced, Model is bad and should be replaced, ModelList has LazyModelList as an alternative, Handlebars is now about to have Y.Template.Micro as an alternative.

I'm old, I've already had all the excitement I care to have. Been there, done that. New component announcements at YUI Conf don't get me excited. I don't need that kind of excitement. I want dependable components, well designed, not trivial ports done on a rush.

Otherwise, the YUI Library will become a dumpster of failed ideas as the Gallery is becoming. In yesterday's Open Hours Dav Glass showed some cool stuff and also showed how the new Gallery 2.0 is going to look. What it really caught my attention is the little info box with the results of tests, coverage, latest update, activity and so on which, at least, lets you know if a component is for real instead of being dead-weight and how well and seriously it was developed. (check my components, none is lacking API docs, examples, tests and such). All these assisted by a wonderful new tool Dav is working on which is amazing (do see the recording: www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4ozoej5y08).

The Gallery is too cluttered. It is too hard to find a worthy component. No wonder when someone decided to get a TreeView into the main library they got the worst choice, there are too many and without any rating system, who is to know which one to choose? The same goes for outside developers. It is very hard to pick a component from the Gallery. I don't want the same to happen with the main library, see all the choices for templating: Y.Lang.sub, Y.substitute, Y.Handlebars, Y.Template.Micro.

In the same OH EricF brought some good news from the basic infrastructure area: Satyen has greatly improved the performance of Event, about 3x in some cases. Considering Events was one of the major problems causing the slowness of Attribute which affected almost everything (and caused alternative implementations such as AttributeLite used by Graphics, or AttributeCore which is used in base-core). This also justified all the callbacks in Y.Model, which is very NodeJS-ish but not very YUI-ish which might not be needed with faster events (Y.Model fires the events anyhow so the expense of setting them up and firing them is not spared, only the listening is saved which now might not be so critical).

Needless to say that I've already wiped out the old yuibuilder from my system in favor of Dav's Shifter. I've been using the new yuidocjs for quite long now. All these is great news.

What are we going to have to repent about in this YUI Conf? Can we take it easy on the announcements? Who are we trying to impress with such cool stuff? I must say, I'm not impressed.

Can we take it easy and take some more time to bring new components? Not all the 'cool' stuff out there is worth including. I expect the YUI Library to have some better measure of quality than coolness. Needless to say, I would like the Gallery to be cleaned up and not be the dumpster it is turning into.

Please

Oh no! Satyam has uncovered my dastardly scheme to destroy YUI. Now that my secret plan has been revealed, all the users I've bribed to pretend that they like the App Framework, Template.Micro, AutoComplete, History, and my other components will admit that they don't like them after all and were totally kidding!

With any luck, some other gullible JavaScript library will accept my awful, awful contributions so that I can continue my evil plan to destroy all that is good on the Internets. Maybe jQuery?

I would love a bit more features around categorizing gallery modules.

Even just a simple flag we can flip: "Proof of Concept", "RFC", "Release Candidate", "Production Ready".

As an example, I've pushed my Bootstrap modules out, but really don't think they're fit for public consumption yet.

That's the take away I'm having from this thread. Everything else happening with YUI is fine. Software gets better when it has more real world usage.

It's not painful to upgrade in most circumstances (DT 3.5 being one exception).

I would much prefer having real world usage get real world feedback that prompts better results. In short, keep up the good work.

Satyam,

No, I'm through taking it easy with you.

You're always quick to claim you're only providing constructive criticism, but you haven't yet learned the meaning of "constructive". Constructive criticism isn't just about what you say, it's about how you say it. I've stopped caring about the things you say because they're invariably couched in emotionally charged rants that I and other developers find insulting and demeaning.

You seem to perceive bugs, performance issues, and design choices with which you disagree as personal affronts, as if I and other YUI developers put them there maliciously for the sole purpose of ruining your day. If a component fails to meet your exact needs, you dub it a "failed component" and refuse to entertain the idea of any compromise that's less than 100% of what you personally want to use or more than 0% of what you personally don't want to use.

You claim that Model and ModelList are ports from Backbone. They aren't. They were inspired by Backbone, and are different in many ways. You claim that they were rushed into the library to get them out in time for YUIConf. They weren't -- they were neither rushed, nor did YUIConf occur anywhere near the date when they were released. You claim that they are failures. Interestingly, you're the only person who seems to feel that way, whereas we've heard from hundreds of people who seem to love them.

You claim that LazyModelList is "mostly incompatible with Y.ModelList". This is not true. The entire point of LazyModelList is that it *is* mostly compatible with Y.ModelList for many use cases.

Eric and I made public a casual discussion in which we spoke candidly about some of the shortcomings we saw with Y.Handlebars and how we can address them. Others thanked us for our transparency and applauded our ongoing efforts to learn from past mistakes and continue to make YUI better. You apparently took it as a sign that we were negligent and hasty in our decision to bring Handlebars into the library. I assure you we weren't -- we may have been wrong, but we were neither negligent nor hasty.

You seem to be under the impression that a perfect component can be developed in a vacuum, with no real-world usage or feedback. With AutoComplete, History, the App Framework, Handlebars, and other components -- and even yuilibrary.com itself -- our goal was to release something useful and then improve it rapidly based on feedback from real-world users, and that's exactly what we've done.

While I've often found your feedback useful when you've managed to avoid emotionally charged language and personal attacks -- and I'm grateful for that -- I have no use for your entitled, bitter, angry, hurtful rants about "failed components" and how you think we're ruining YUI.

Luckily for me, I no longer work for Yahoo!, so my contributions to YUI are now entirely voluntary. That means I don't have to put up with you if I don't want to.

This is mostly between Satyam and Ryan, I think, but I have something to add (after removing a longer post).

Every time Y.Model comes up there is a long winded rant.

When stating your opinion isn't appropriate (eg., https://github.com/yahoo/mojito/issues/259) and detracts from the discussion, you are being aggressive.

English skills have nothing to do with this.

State your opinion once. If people don't like it then drop it. This is YUI and *I* love Y.Model the way it is. I do not like your take on it. You wrote a weird half-ORM.

I don't want an ORM, I want Y.Model and we are intelligent and experienced enough to make this decision without being reminded in every thread where Y.Model is mentioned.

The rants because you personally don't like something are what make you aggressive. Your wording and English is not the cause.